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Katie: Howdy, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That’s wellness with an E on the tip. And I’m right here at this time with Leah Segedie, who helps girls and mothers make safer client decisions for his or her households. And he or she is the creator at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we speak particularly about one thing known as PFAS, that are chemical compounds which can be present in every kind of family merchandise. We go deep on this at this time, however we speak about what they’re, why they’re thought of ceaselessly chemical compounds, how there are over 10,000 within the surroundings, and the way they have an effect on the physique in plenty of other ways. We speak about how testing may be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical compounds, how you can keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered rather a lot. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be a part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?
Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.
Katie: Likewise, I really like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you just guys can really watch our faces whereas we speak. I believe most individuals nonetheless pay attention on podcast apps, but it surely’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Really feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you stated, it’s been some time since we received to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really explicit challenge. However earlier than we do, I’ve a be aware in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are mainly a human pretzel. So I might simply love to listen to a little bit bit about this story first.
Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, but it surely’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s a little bit wiener canine or one thing. And so the folks that have heard about it are like, “Sure, my canine has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. However sure, that illness does occur in people. However there’s two kinds of folks that it’s actually widespread in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, and so they’re the reindeer folks. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And so they have a lot of it, it’s been written up in Nationwide Geographic and stuff, so you may Google it. However mainly, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket each time I would like.
Now, after I’m working, that’s dangerous, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. However the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. In the event you can think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and with the ability to put my foot again right here after I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out once they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my ft right here. But when I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I need to do it’s within the mattress. As a result of you understand, I don’t have the…I simply seem like a humorous toy after I do this. However it is extremely fascinating and humorous to speak about. However sure, I can put my ft proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Completely.
Katie: That’s humorous. And one in every of my…
Leah: If nobody has identified me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover superb.
Katie: Effectively, and one in every of my favourite journey reminiscences of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to satisfy the Sami tribe. They’re a few of the most fascinating folks I’ve ever met and completely stunning the best way their way of life is, very completely different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. In order that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as properly.
Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my kin that I do know which can be in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve plenty of kin which can be in Bergen, which is actually cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply superb. You need to go there as soon as in your lifetime.
Katie: I’ll put it on the listing. And I really feel like I might speak about that each one day lengthy. However we even have one other necessary subject that I believe will probably be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t understand it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing a brilliant, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this subject, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them at this time. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak rather a lot about at this time, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?
Leah: It’s known as, you may confer with it as PFAS or PFAS. However PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation and so they’re simply placing it collectively. So basically, after we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical compounds and a chemical class. And so they all have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. However you’ve heard of those chemical compounds as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical compounds that we have now been sort of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical compounds was considered protected, you understand, inert, like okay, however within the final couple many years, we discovered that they’re persistent, which implies they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical compounds are. That’s why they’re known as ceaselessly chemical compounds. These ceaselessly chemical compounds can final in your physique for a few years or many years. They only actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the impartial scientists who have been coming within the backend making an attempt to see in the event that they’re protected, it’s been rather a lot and lot plenty of dangerous information. So in the event you’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, you understand, engaged on PFAS options, or in case you have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. These are all examples of PFAS chemical compounds that we have now had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.
So what I’m doing proper now’s, and thru Mamavation, is actually making an attempt to construct up some consciousness round girls, in order that they know what to search for and know how you can keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this case is it’s unattainable to fully keep away from them. You would need to stay…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’ll nonetheless discover them there. So that you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, and so they get all over the place. However what we are able to do is we are able to make educated choices and decisions in our house, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our youngsters are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually necessary is the following technology.
Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, bettering issues for our children. What are a few of the problematic areas we see in the case of these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you stated, plenty of this analysis is barely within the final couple of many years. However what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?
Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for ladies, it’s actually dangerous for ladies, but it surely’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought by way of that, you don’t want additional testosterone in your physique. However in the event you’re a person, and also you get additional testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, accomplished, I’ve produced sufficient.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually dangerous in the event you’re making an attempt to have a child, otherwise you’re making an attempt to breed, you understand. The opposite factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with the whole lot else is it kills your immune system, basically, it brings down your immunity so that you just can not struggle off ailments.
Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is occurring. Now, I don’t know the way many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. However what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you may have in your system, the much less probably vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. In order that’s a few of the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, throughout the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve accomplished this in adults, however they’ve positively accomplished in youngsters. And so they know that the extra you may have in your physique, and bear in mind, this could occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less probably you may reply to one thing like a vaccine, or every other sort of remedy that’s like that, that’s imagined to carry up your immune system. In order that’s one factor you actually need to watch out about.
They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and kind 2 diabetes. So that they’re linking it to sort 2 diabetes, particularly in girls. So there’s plenty of girls strolling round who’re having points and it could have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. After which, in fact, cancers, there’s plenty of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is smart in the event you understand it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. In order that’s sort of the totality of it. The issue that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you understand, what’s occurring to us can be occurring to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our client merchandise, it’s getting in all types of issues.
And so to be conscious that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t need to stress your self out to the quantity that you just’re making your self sick, proper? However on the planet of, these are chemical compounds that I need to keep away from, this can be a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is greater up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I might have a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, in the event you’re frightened about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. what I imply? Like, these kinds of issues. That’s a much bigger class that you just simply need to keep away from.
Katie: Yeah. So many necessary factors I believe you’ve simply made. And I believe what I might simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I believe that’s its personal separate dialog, however the necessary similarity there’s that in each instances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to grow to be a polarizing challenge. However in each instances, it’s like how will we help the immune system in pure methods in both of these instances, and that’s one thing we are able to really all agree on. And so this can be a piece of that puzzle. I consider plenty of similarities like plastic-type chemical compounds, for example, as properly, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if potential in any respect will we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?
Leah: You possibly can’t. Effectively, right here’s the arduous factor, it builds up. So it’s a type of chemical compounds that we don’t have any proof of something with the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the arduous half. Proper? And that’s absolutely the fact. If folks let you know the alternative, I don’t know the way supported that’s by the information, proper? So that is a type of distinctive chemical compounds that doesn’t function like different chemical compounds, you understand, plenty of these nasty, persistent chemical compounds are trapped in fats. So in the event you can pull it out by means of the fats, then you may pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very in another way in your physique, and the reply is they only don’t know.
So what the best-case situation is true now’s to keep away from it as a lot as you may, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it while you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s while you’re simply you understand, searching for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however in fact, you understand, hormone-disrupting chemical compounds are worse throughout hormone modifications in the course of the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. In order that’s when the whole lot is altering and it all the way down to the second, the minute, you understand, issues received to simply align proper. The second half is while you’re out and it’s 5 years, you understand, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.
Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is while you undergo the change, proper, you begin to grow to be a girl otherwise you grow to be a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you need to begin to consider this, though they don’t care, you continue to need to give it some thought, proper? After which in direction of the tip of your life, for girls it’s while you undergo the change once more and also you cease with the ability to, you understand, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you understand, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it could be good to know, really. However these are an important instances so that you can begin excited about these items, when these kinds of folks…you understand when you may have youngsters in the home.
Katie: Yeah, and I believe the steadiness, such as you stated is necessary, like keep away from it each time potential, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. After which from there, I all the time consider, particularly after we’re speaking about chemical compounds, we don’t really know how you can get out of the physique. It’s like help the pure detox pathways in any method potential. After which attempt to hold a balanced stress degree and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m a giant fan of issues like sauna, simply primary hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical compounds within the physique.
Leah: And poop, proper? As a result of all of the dangerous stuff comes out while you poop, you need to do this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. However we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you understand, they haven’t accomplished research on that but. However I believe it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now making an attempt to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical compounds. You have been saying one thing about plasticizers. Satirically, it’s additionally a plasticizer. As a result of there’s a complete class known as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is sort of like, which is a polymer. And paradoxically, you understand, after I do testing, there aren’t any checks to seek out all of those polymers. So after I’m testing for these chemical compounds, and I’m searching for over 10,000 of them, the sort of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot examine. It’s trying to see if these chemical parts are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s unattainable. There’s solely about 90 chemical compounds you may check for at a very good business lab. Most of those labs that you may check for will solely be capable to check for perhaps 16 to 30. Nevertheless it’s in a college lab, they will most likely discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.
The opposite possibility is what you see plenty of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so you then function one other check that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing known as natural fluorine, which isn’t a beautiful factor. Once I say natural by way of chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it sort of means the alternative, it means man-made. So I’m searching for the man-made fluorine. If you discover that, there’s sort of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very prone to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescription drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I could possibly be discovering. The testing that I function is a very excessive check. It appears at 10 elements per million. Now, though I’m saying elements per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of once they’re testing in water, they’re trying all the best way down within the elements per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic measurement swimming pools, proper? And so mine can be perhaps a drop in a daily pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not trying in water, we’re trying in client merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, basically, as a result of that’s how the check is, burns issues, you understand. So if it could possibly’t be burned, we are able to’t use that testing methodology. Then there’s different issues we are able to have a look at.
Nevertheless it’s additionally actually tough to seek out, and you understand, the devils within the particulars, in the event you can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. In order that’s the place I really feel like I’m sort of standing within the center right here. I’m sending plenty of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that may be pure, you understand, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers desires to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they need to learn about the whole lot else. And you’ll be sort of stunned, within the pure business, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to seek out. There’s plenty of causes behind that.
One of many causes is, like for example, in the event you’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to forestall them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And so they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you understand, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t discover something within the requirements.” And so they’re like, “It’s not there.” And so they’ll say to me one thing like, “Effectively, you need to, you understand, strain the FDA to take these out of…you understand, as authorised oblique components, as a substitute of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I believe you need to most likely repair this within the requirements, I simply suppose you need to.” However that’s simply my opinion.
So it may be in something, basically. And in the event you check out the FDA web site, on what’s authorised for a meals contact sort of substance, there’s plenty of polymers which can be authorised, polymeric PFAS. So which means these are PFAS chemical compounds which can be made up of all these various kinds of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS product of PFAS, and likewise, but it surely turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, most likely, I’m pondering, since there’s so lots of them which can be authorised by the FDA, that’s most likely what we might most likely be seeing in meals, you understand, sort of producing. I’ve by no means been in a position to isolate and discover it as a result of these checks are simply not obtainable. However I hold seeing it in every kind of merchandise. And I’m actually completely happy to do that testing as a result of not solely do I need to know, however as soon as I began testing, everyone else wished to know as properly. So it’s an important service that we’re in a position to present for folks at Mamavation. I’m actually completely happy to have the ability to do that.
Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some widespread merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. However earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I might love to listen to what are a few of the widespread sources within the house surroundings that some folks listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as properly. What can be a few of the widespread sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the house?
Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless suppose you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. A variety of this could be cookware, so in case you have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I might keep away from that. Clearly, I do know you’ve received nice content material about that and I’ve received content material about that, that have been sort of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. In order that’s one place. You additionally need to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of one can find it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s outdoors. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the skin, if it will get too sizzling, it could possibly disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless sort of a difficulty. So we’re proper now working by means of these merchandise for air fryers and every kind of various issues. I might simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to ensure that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Undoubtedly not meals contact, meals contact can be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.
Meals packaging is one other challenge, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which can be product of silicone and there’s some parchment papers which can be product of PFAS. And so they, a few of them generally they’ll let you know, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to sort of assist out your folks proper now as a result of I do know that you just’re going to ask me which of them are protected. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears sort of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. One other Finnish firm, which is known as Gifbera, after which one other one known as Katbite, which I believe is Korean, these are all obtainable on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.
However right here’s like, plenty of instances while you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a difficulty of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you may prepare dinner from scratch at house, the extra you’re going to have the ability to do away with these contaminants with out even figuring out about it as a result of plenty of instances it has to do with the processing of the meals by some means, and the way these chemical compounds, be in polymers or no matter, are stepping into the whole lot. So the extra you may prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I believe that’s most likely one thing that you just love to listen to, the extra you may prepare dinner utilizing components that you understand about, the higher off you might be.
One other actually large space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. However you understand, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different folks’s. And it incorporates plenty of fireplace retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical tools in your home. So your tv most likely has some PFAS within the wiring, perhaps has it someplace. And when that plastic will get sizzling, plenty of these plastics have fireplace retardants and different kinds of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get sizzling, they sort of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in direction of mud. So that they persist with the mud and so they fall, proper?
So how do you get this out of your home? I might say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you understand, the cleaner you retain your home, the much less probably your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you understand, being on carpet in case you may have outdated carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you understand, to get that stuff out of it, it’ll break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you may, these kinds of issues. Get an air air purifier, a few of the greatest air purifiers are on the market. Although I do know those that we advocate are most likely additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So that you need to do away with the mud.
Make-up and private care, this can be a actually tough challenge. Earlier this yr, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And they also checked out over 300 standard, largely standard make-up merchandise and so they discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you understand what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go anyplace and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So that you need to sort of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.
I might say we discovered about six or seven completely different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you understand, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re searching for. However most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you understand, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at plenty of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing on daily basis, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first go dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually tough to sort of be capable to say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do plenty of testing to determine that out. So make-up I might say, and different than simply, you understand, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that info on the market. Even the scientists who have been taking a look at it, they’re not likely like granting you the uncooked knowledge to have the ability to work out which one they examined however that’s why we did it.
One other factor is like water, look into your water. This can be a actually large deal as a result of in the event you stay by a army base otherwise you stay by an airport that is actually necessary, army bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater beneath and has contaminated plenty of groundwater by these bases. So in the event you stay by an airport otherwise you stay by a army base, I might simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. As a result of the reply is it’s most likely going to be there and it might not be a sort of PFAS that we are able to acknowledge simply but. , as a result of that’s the opposite drawback with water is, we’re not as much as testing in any respect. So I might simply assume, you understand, that that’s how I’m working proper now’s I’m simply assuming, though our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you understand, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you understand, that’s how I really feel like there’s a giant gaping gap. So water, work on water.
Clothes is one other large one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve plenty of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to creating strategies for testing. A few of them, you understand, they’re working at various kinds of phases in various kinds of methods with this chemical. However the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up in opposition to your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.
And since we don’t know, we are able to’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. However the place are you going to seek out it? Something that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which can be stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in plenty of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so in the event you go to Mamavation…I want I might let you know each single one, but it surely’s very complicated on the market proper now to seek out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. A few of these corporations which can be producing clothes, aren’t trying on the large chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, and so they say, “We’re freed from PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you understand.
And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, for example. Bluesign licensed is a type of certifications that may enable sure kinds of PFAS chemical compounds within the certification and but they sort of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the buyer and the explanation it’s complicated for the buyer is the scientists have simply sort of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to think about as a part of the chemical. So I don’t need to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the legislation, you understand, once they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering generally the businesses are two, three years behind, you understand, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m working into plenty of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you understand, something like that, which may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be looking for that.
Tents and out of doors tools. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to chortle at me, however there’s one model that we love a lot. And it’s received a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish title and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t converse Swedish. And it’s received a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. However there’s plenty of European manufacturers that as a substitute of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, for example, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really related or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra expensive, you understand, you’re not going to discover a low cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you understand, extra pure…and I do know paraffin shouldn’t be pure, however like, you understand, it’s higher than PFAS. These kinds of mixtures which can be much less problematic to the surroundings in a cheap method but, hopefully the longer term will change that.
Then additionally, you understand, it’s in automotive wax and surfboard wax, these kinds of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been excited about this by way of what’s round us. , in the event you’re going to be doing flooring, for example, you understand, we went after bamboo and we regarded particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s cheaper, it doesn’t dent, you may stroll round along with your heels and so I used to be making an attempt to love, you understand, resolve all the issues after which we did discover one model. Nevertheless it’s tough. It’s actually tough to keep away from it, you understand, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you may. These are the three issues that I might say would most likely do probably the most bang to your buck and simply look out for locations who…like in the event you go to mamavation.com, we’ve accomplished an investigation on like plenty of issues, not the whole lot but, however on plenty of issues. And that’s the…I’m making an attempt to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m sort of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is actually sophisticated.
Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you stated, we’re seeing some which can be labeled as “freed from” sure ones of those, but it surely jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. However these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some instances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you stated, that they’re protected.
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And I do know out of your website, you’ve accomplished investigations into all of those various kinds of issues. And also you gave us a family overview simply now. However I might like to undergo some others which can be particularly most likely relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?
Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as dangerous, really. In order that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I believe, 32 or 33, completely different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you understand what I imply? I put on them actually on daily basis, it’s sort of like my outfit, it ought to be like a uniform. And I do know every day, I’m carrying yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually snug, and my hair is in a very messy bun, I received plenty of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, after I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to seek out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to seek out it. After which I assumed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, in the event you look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 elements per million, so that’s protected.
We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and greatest class of these 32. Those that we discovered detectable there within the prime of the what we might not advocate, then there have been ones within the center, which have been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be at liberty to purchase them. After which for these of you who need the natural model that’s in one of the best on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to sort of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as properly. So this was not as dangerous, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it may be related in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I could sooner or later, perhaps begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however in the event you…to learn about that, I don’t learn about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to let you know I don’t learn about some fits and underwear but. However interval underwear, I do know.
Katie: Effectively, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices obtainable as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. However that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s speak about sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.
Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you understand your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the interior half. So the interior half is that, like, sort of pores and skin coloration mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which can be subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And after I instructed my advisors about this, plenty of them they have been pediatricians that have been, you understand, serving to me evaluation this one particular one, they have been involved and extra of our advisors have been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up in opposition to your breasts. Now, right here’s the situation I’m pondering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. , you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as greatest as you may and you understand you’ve received like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So that you’re understanding, understanding, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So you then run upstairs, you go get the newborn, and growth, breastfeed. That’s the situation I’m frightened about.
So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and have a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and greatest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not the whole lot. It was arduous due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however one in every of them that I did discover that I believe individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Goal. Goal has really been doing plenty of work on PFAS and textiles and you can inform as a result of after I examined in opposition to that, they got here out clear. So in the event you’re a giant busted girl, which I’m, my women are fairly massive…In the event you’re a giant busted girl you don’t need, like, black eyes whilst you’re understanding, proper, Goal’s a type of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s filled with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. So that they’re known as All In Movement or one thing like that, in order that was good. And generally I simply hold testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you understand, and that was a type of points the place I simply saved testing. That was sports activities bras. In order that’s one you need to look on mamavation.com. In the event you go there, we’ve received all the checks listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.
Katie: What about interval underwear? That is after I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m a giant fan of the menstrual cup as a substitute for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as properly, however what did you discover when it got here to those?
Leah: It was fairly dangerous really after we regarded into interval underwear, we had…I’m making an attempt to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I believe we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that really market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however you might have considered trying to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’ll present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. However it’s a must to have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You have a look at that scientific examine, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection degree is rather a lot greater than mine. So I check at 10 elements per million. They have been testing at 50, so you understand what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. However I might say there’s some humorous enterprise happening in that.
And the issue is…I, you understand, interviewed plenty of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And basically what’s occurring is what they stated to me is you may have lots of people on this business that don’t actually have plenty of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know rather a lot about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at plenty of different issues, however they don’t actually know rather a lot concerning the processing of textiles. And in the event you don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you may get Oeko-Tex cloth, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer will probably be like, “Oh, would you like waterproofing on that?” And so they know that in the event you put that on it destroys the whole lot, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it in any case. And so you understand, in the event you’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile business, you could fall into that class.
So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that regarded like…there was a couple of manufacturers that had ranges that have been actually excessive, proper, I might be like, “Whoa.” However then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that have been low. And so while you have a look at that, it appears like extra of a contamination challenge than it appears like an deliberately added challenge. However I don’t know what, you understand, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no one is aware of. In order that’s why we have been in a position to do the classes we have been and I consider it was…it may be seven now as a result of we hold testing. And we hold including to that report, you understand, each time we do discover one thing, and folks that ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to do this I can check stuff, simply hold it in its authentic packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. However yeah, we’ve had group members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go check it within the lab simply to ensure we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we are able to see. That’s not one.
Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be sure we hyperlink to those as properly as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and other people can go search for the particular particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm can have all these hyperlinks. One other related one for mothers, what about ketchup? As a result of I do know for lots of children, this can be a favourite so as to add to plenty of stuff. So what about ketchup?
Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had complete fluorine in it. Now, I wished to elucidate to everyone that I did complete fluorine checks on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me let you know sort of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab during the last 2 years, plenty of testing. So that provides you an concept of how a lot testing I’ve accomplished. And I might say 80% of that testing, we’ve accomplished natural fluorine on. And after I first began, I did complete fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you understand, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.
However we discovered a ton of complete fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you understand, in any Heinz product. After which we didn’t discover it in 365 Complete Meals Natural Ketchup. So it made me suppose that that may be white-labeled, perhaps white-labeled Heinz ketchup, have you learnt what I’m saying? However then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and plenty of them have been actually near 10. So it was like they have been proper there, proper?
So right here’s the reply to that, of all the issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…and so they do complete fluorine on the whole lot, however then we run one other check and it’s a check for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re in a position to do a calculation to deduct the overall fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, in order that they do this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not potential, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, perhaps three elements per million. , so plenty of manufacturers will need to say, in the event that they need to say it’s complete fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you understand, fluoride to be a giant factor and something, you understand, I believe they need to suppose that it’s but it surely’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers folks have been actually, actually…they actually wished to learn about.
And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, and so they have been just about the identical quantity. So I believe that we’re discovering plenty of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that specific investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply most likely not going to be till subsequent yr someday, proper? And I need to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know plenty of them do learn about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and stated they’re making any strikes. In order that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.
Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so folks can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to come back in different classes as properly. So folks can keep updated with you to maintain an eye fixed out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s potential to get folks examined for these compounds. And I additionally marvel like, is there even a…in the event you’re going to weigh the chance and advantages, is it even price doing? We don’t know how you can get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it price testing if it’s even potential? Or is it higher simply to know they’re dangerous and keep away from them?
Leah: So I want I might have accomplished that after I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a check downstairs, there’s a model new check that got here out. I believe it’s known as Empower FX. So I’m going to must double examine on that. However there’s a model new check the place you may prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, this can be a large large deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s obtainable to everyone. So let me provide you with some background. So I wished to do a physique burden, you understand, scientific examine. And I had plenty of scientists concerned and we sort of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near unattainable to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you understand, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you understand, you wait per week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually arduous to check in your physique, actually, actually tough to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.
At that time, we have been trying right into a lab that was about $1,000 a check. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll let you know my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And also you’re doing it at house. What we have been going to look into was sending folks to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you understand, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. However now there’s a firm, and I need to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down beneath. However they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab around the globe. So it’s a very…that’s an important partnership. And so Eurofins is the associate on this and so they’re producing these little check kits. So you may check your self, it’s a little bit drip of blood, ship it off, and I consider they’re testing for between 16 to 30 completely different PFAS, however the commonest ones that you just’re going to seek out in water.
Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as properly if it’s in your website, or I’ll get that information from you for people who find themselves…
Leah: It’s not but.
Katie: Okay.
Leah: You’ve received it first.
Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, in fact, flew by as a result of we all the time have such enjoyable conversations.
Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.
Katie: So we’ll simply must do extra rounds of this as increasingly investigations come out. However simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you need to give to our listeners at this time, could possibly be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?
Leah: Oh, you understand, by way of these items, I might say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, perhaps eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, you understand, I need to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And all the different issues, I’ll primarily based on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, by way of like, while you’re excited about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you utilize as soon as a month, proper? What you need to have a look at are the large dailies, proper, day by day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff by way of, you understand, don’t freak out over some factor that you just’re going to be consuming, you understand, or consuming as soon as a month. So go off to your pal’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you understand, take pleasure in your self. As a result of the stress that you may placed on folks primarily based on being afraid of all these items, I believe, might be worse on you total than I believe the precise chemical compounds themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered over time.
And so defend your area, defend your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I believe that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, you understand what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re sensible. And in addition stepping into the world of it would being like a disordered pondering course of, you understand, the disordered pondering strategy of the whole lot is poisonous shouldn’t be place so that you can be. I would like you to take pleasure in your life. And you understand, comply with folks like Katie and I for, you understand, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. , that’s my recommendation is, you understand, management what you bought within the house, exit and discover the world and luxuriate in your self, and check out to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my greatest recommendation.
After which simply, you understand, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you understand, that is a type of points the place individuals are not likely contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of girls who’re dwelling in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Allow them to know that you just care, and also you care about them, have you learnt what I’m saying? In the event you’re voting for them, and that is your challenge, ensure that they know that that is necessary to them. As a result of I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and once they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they received their little strollers and stuff, you understand you’re in hassle. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t need to piss off both of these teams. However you understand, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s plenty of states and after I say rather a lot, I imply plenty of states proper now which can be contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They should hear from you.
Katie: Yeah, I’ve stated that so many instances on this podcast that mothers are such a drive of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the typical mother modifications her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many alternative ranges. And I’ve seen it on an area degree. Really, the place I used to stay, it was fascinating, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and received it modified. However I believe it doesn’t must be…I believe we frequently don’t do it as a result of we expect it must be this large quantity, this large groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they listen. So I might say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our children, don’t underestimate your energy to vary that. And in addition to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you may but in addition understand the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or grow to be tense. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our day by day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.
Leah: Love you, woman. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.
Katie: Proper again at you, and thanks for the time at this time. It’s all the time, in fact, so enjoyable to get to talk with you. Like I stated, we’ll do it once more as increasingly information turns into obtainable. However thanks for being right here.
Leah: In fact. It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Katie.
Katie: And thanks, as all the time, to all of you for listening and sharing your most dear sources, your time, your power and your consideration with us at this time. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be a part of me once more on the following episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”
In the event you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a score or evaluation on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to seek out the podcast, which implies much more mothers and households may benefit from the knowledge. I actually recognize your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.
